Mountain Christians Group

It's possible that the New International Version (UK version) sheds light on what might be an allusion to spousal abuse - stating that the Lord hates it!

"Has not the LORD made them one? In flesh and spirit they are his. And why one? Because he was seeking godly offspring. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith with the wife of your youth.

I hate divorce, says the LORD God of Israel, and I hate a man's covering himself with violence as well as with his garment, says the LORD Almighty. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith."

Malachi 2:15-16 (NIV - UK)

Papa_CoyoteSent: Monday, July 7, 2008 07:29 PM"...When you each put the other one first, you both come out winners..."

There ya go.

I think this is right on the mark. I think Neil that you may be coming from a male point of view and not necessarily consider both sides of the equation.

Marriage should be a give a take. When partners love each other they want to please each other. It's when one or both partners depart from their role of caring for the other one that the trouble and conflict starts.

One example, I have both seen and experienced people giving in to doing something they didn't really want to do to make their partner happy. This goes both ways and men do it too.

I like to think of my grandfather. He ran a business and worked up to 15 hours sometimes. When he came home my grandma always had something that she needed done. She would say, Wayne do this.....whatever it was. About 95% of the time he would do whatever it was happily and not complain. In my view men can also fail in a marriage by not considering the needs of their wife. One the other hand there were occasions when he would say. No, not right now. When this happened my grandma didn't push him or act mean or mad about it. She realized he was tired and when he was rested she would get her way some more. lol I might also add that my grandfather never intimidated or abused my grandma in any way.

My mom didn't take a lesson from her mother AT ALL. When my dad didn't want to do something she would through a huge fit. She wouldn't care if my dad explained why he didn't want to do whatever it was. She was content to continue the arguement for days until she did get her way. Now men also do this at times. They think they are right and fail to consider the other persons feelings. My mom had to have her way no matter what the rhyme or reason. Guess which marriage worked and which ended in divorce?

In my view in a marriage there has to be communication, understanding, giving (yes sometimes people have to give rather than argue), and love. That is what I think.

Oh nevermind Neil I didn't see your last post before I finished mine.

Good night everyone. Somehow ROTW must be mad at me about wanting a Deerlick community thread. Suddenly I cannot log back in as Photog, so I'm back to my original name again....

Now I'm back on? I don't get it! Does this mean I get the Deerlick community thread, too?

It really isn't that complicated is it? I think what happens is that if people really love each other - they listen to their hearts and are flexible towards each other. Over a period of time they learn to live together with understanding. Ultimately the two become one flesh. The two become more and more meshed together.

That's the importance of people listening to their hearts and not being dogmatic about a scripture that they only halfway understand. If someone proceeds to over magnify the significance of their partial understanding of an isolated scripture - to the point where all common sense is abandoned and they find themselves ignoring every bell and whistle and alarm that would try to reign in their ignorance - then people can seriously get off in left field.

That's what some guys have done with some verses in the bible meant to teach wive's how to relate to their husbands. Some guys don't really have wisdom and understanding but they basically club their wives with verses taken out of context and taught in a way to gain advantage for themselves - and do a lot of damage in the process.

...So do morons who attempt to sit in judgment on the Word of God who do not have any wisdom from God to read it with understanding - but simply misinterpret those passages just as stupidly as the chauvanist morons that they hate. Then after they misinterpret them they attempt to pass judgment on God, the Word and Christianity based on those same stupid conclusions that they have brainstormed in their ignorance.

No one here is saying that the bible commands women to kiss their husband's butt's - except it seems Willow just has a generalized and persistant problem with what the Word of God states - what's new? I've basically spent all day answering questions regarding this issue and I doubt any thing I've said has convinced her that I am anything but a patriarchal misogynist.

I understand why she believes that - it's because she believes that the Bible is a somewhat misogynistic book. I'm certainly not advocating the objectification or disrespect of women, the bible isn't and no one posting on this thread has tried to demean women in any way.

So if anyone is still having a problem over this issue - then they brought it in with them.

No one here is saying that the bible commands women to kiss their husband's butt's - except it seems Willow just has a generalized and persistant problem with what the Word of God states - what's new? I've basically spent all day answering questions regarding this issue and I doubt any thing I've said has convinced her that I am anything but a patriarchal misogynist.

Neil, you said you 'knew my paradigm' and I asked you to tell me mostly so I see if you do understand my paradigm. Your statement here leaves me wondering.

As to today's conversation, I was sharing my world life view and my 46 years experience on this planet as a spirit in human form with you, Neil. If you didn't want to talk with me then you could have just ignored me while I was talking with Shelli.

I understand why she believes that - it's because she believes that the Bible is a somewhat misogynistic book.

Thinking this way, you would be in error. The bible is a collection of stories, myths, parables and census logs written by all manner of human men.


I'm certainly not advocating the objectification or disrespect of women, the bible isn't and no one posting on this thread has tried to demean women in any way. So if anyone is still having a problem over this issue - then they brought it in with them.

Oh! Very good, Neil!!! Nice twist

awww....you think I am just a mean old harpy who hates men and wants to take issue with all the misogynistic bastards out there, eh? And if your words could be construed as misogynistic, then it's not YOUR fault!!

Nice twist to our entire conversation!!!

Neil...this is my paradigm:

Marriage, whether it be a Christian marriage, Jewish marriage, Buddhist marriage, Wiccan marriage, whatever, is a spiritual contract written on the hearts of two people who wish to partner themselves together and live their lives with unconditional love and support from and for each other, knowing all the while that they ARE two separate souls walking hand in hand and side by side in love. There is no leader. There is no follower. There are two people who utilize each others strength to live in growth and foster growth to overcome each others weaknesses. For some, this union will last their lifetime. For others, this union will last as long as love lasts, for some people do not want to let go of their dysfunction or are incapable of transcending their life's 'drama'.

I apologize that my non-Christian views do not mesh with the conversation you wish to have here, Neil, and I respectfully withdraw my presence.

Peace be with you
Willow

If you didn't want to talk with me then you could have just ignored me while I was talking with Shelli.

Willow - it's basically impossible to have a private conversation with anyone on this forum. If you have something to say to me my email address is in my profile and you are welcome to send me an email. (That's why I set up that particular email for people here.) In fact, I don't mind if anyone uses that email address it's why I set it up. It has been used several times to communicate privately with people. I welcome private conversations via email.

No worries, Shelli.

Please continue with the discussion at hand.

This is an interesting and in depth read. I did find a couple of statemets that I don't completely agree with since I really don't know about it. Otherwise most of this read is really interesting and informative.

http://www.bible.com/bibleanswers_result.php?id=155

No worries Willow - we just have a different paradigm.

...and you were going to get me to change my tune....

lol

I had given you a response way earlier Willow but after I highlighted it to save it - I hit paste instead of copy and the whole long but esquisitely written post disappeared in a puff of electrons. It is always devastating to me when that happens. How can I rewrite something when it is already been aptly expressed?

That's what makes it particularly difficult for me to restate a position that I've already defined - it's just how I'm wired I guess.

Anyways - I wasn't talking in terms of the bible / woman's/submission thing - That's really what you brought up! I was referring to your statement: "...you tie things up in such neat little tidy packages and present them as "truth", Neil.... ....Life is rarely that accommodating and never neat and tidy!"

I believe that you will see that I will not handle the subject of marriage, love and infidelity in a shallow manner that will be appropriately charecterized as "tying things up in neat little tidy packages". Though it will not surprise me if you do not completely agree - I do believe you will not see the discussion as shallow.

On the lighter side...

Have you ever noticed...?

Woman has Man in it
Mrs. has Mr. in it
Female has Male in it
She has He in it
Madam has Adam in it

Okay, it all makes sense now...
I never looked at it this way before:
MEN tal illness
MENstrual cramps
MEN tal breakdown
MEN opause
GUY necologist
AND ..
When we have REAL trouble, it's a
HIS terectomy.
Ever notice how all of women's problems start with MEN?


Ok, I really don't believe that, but it arrived in my inbox today and I couldn't resist sharing.

LMG - I've gotten that email from my friends several times. It is a cute funny quote.

LOL LMG! I have to disagree with you....I really DO believe that! running out quickly

lol Tinkr!

LOL!!

Tell me it's not the truth, I dare ya!!

Willow, I think your description of marriage/partnership was beautiful.