Mountain Christians Group

Sabro, That's a great idea! I won't even subject you all to my haggis!!
God Bless You all!

Mountain Scott – Thank you, thank you, thank you. Your posts are so level headed, warm and explanatory. I haven’t joined in because you’ve done such a wonderful job. And, to tell you the truth, after listening to my mom berate the LDS church to no end when I joined, I just don’t have the heart to enter the fray anymore.

My mother, an otherwise intelligent, open woman, believes everything evil thing she’s ever heard about the church – recites it as absolute fact - and refuses to even enter into a discussion about the facts.

Anyway, this isn’t about my personal trials, I just wanted to let you know that your voice has been appreciated.

Mountainscott,

The reason I posted those quotes from Mormon elders is because someone made the statement that Christians should worry about their own faith instead of bashing the faith of others. If you look at those quotes, then you must agree that someone needs to explain this to the elders of your church as well. It was not a swipe at Mormonism, but an example of the "plank in your eye."

"J_Sorensen has used some creative license:
"At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage." mormons don't have a problem with this. They believe that the marriages performed prior to the resurrection will be honored." -Mountainscott

I used no creative license at all. The woman was married....seven times in fact. When the disciples asked Christ which one of them would be her husband in heaven, he replied and said that no one is married in heaven. If that verse implies that a marriage would be honored prior to the resurrection, then one of those men would still have been her rightful husband in heaven, yet Christ did not say that.

"J_Sorensen:
"I was answered that I must join none of them (Christian churches), for they were all wrong…their creeds were an abomination in [God’s] sight; that those professors were all corrupt" (Joseph Smith—History 1:19).

See the parentheses?? That is not in the text. That is an addition by J_Sorensen or whatever anti LDS Source is being quoted. Smith did not say he was instructed to join no Christian Chrurch. He was instructed to join none of the ones with which he was familiar in that limited geographic area.
There were many uneducated, shyter preachers and evangelists teaching very non-biblical messages in that area in that time." -Mountainscott

Not true. All of the mainline denominations were represented in Smith's location. According to Mormon theology, there was a "great apostasy." If you adhere to that, then there is no question that Smith was referring to all other Christian churches because the sign of an apostasy would be the teaching of non-biblical messages.

"Mitty, Mormons never claim to have added to the Bible. The Book of Mormon in no way conflicts with any teaching of the Bible. It is a testament of Jesus' ministry to a people in a different continent, and it is an entirely different story, but with many of the same underlying messages. It reinforces the Bible but does not interfere." -Mountainscott

Debatable at best. The scripture that knocks out the eternal marriage doctrine of the LDS is only one example.

"The argument regarding the Bible as the only scripture that is legitimate is moot until someone gets all of the "recognized" Christian denomonations on the same page. We all know the history of the canonization of the Bible and many Christians use scripyure not accepted by many othet denomonations. Get that squared away and then you an talk to mormons about it." -Mountainscott

A disagreement among other Christians does not validate the Book of Mormon.

"Here is the problem with the rabid psuedo-intellectualism and wanna be theologianism which seems to run wild on this site and in this thread. Any moron can read scriptures, take them out of context, read only the ones that back up their preconcieved ideas, and try to shove that tripe down the throats of others." -Mountainscott

That's a pretty bold statement, but you make a great argument against the Protestant notion of "Sola Scriptura." If the individual is not qualified to study scripture and understand it, then by whose authority is Scripture interpreted?

I wasn't trying to push anything down your throat. You asked what Christians believe about "eternal marriage" and I posted the Bible verse that deals with it. I did not comment on the Scripture, so any insult that you feel was not intended.

"The message of Christ was clear and concise. it was plain and simple. He defined Christianity and said, also very clearly that no one else gets to." -Mountainscott

Except Joseph Smith.

"My experience in life has always been that folks who use theor time constantly challenging the faith of others, instead of focusing on building their own, are usually not truly happy with their own." -Mountainscott

Have you ever considered the fact that Christ charged ALL Christians to go forth and spread the faith, and that every Christian should be prepared to make a defense of it? (1 Pet. 3:15)

"Mormons really don't care if the rest of the Christian world thinks they are Christians. They are very secure in their Chritaianity and they don' really need validation from anyone except Christ Himself.
While I have to admit that I personally sometimes enjoy the debate on this site, that's me." -Mountainscott

Does this mean you are not truly happy in your faith? I would not make this assumption about you, rather I would consider it an honor to seek the truth by looking at the facts and discussing/debating them with you.

"If all of you folks who are so concerned with the salvation of Mormons really care, get up off this thread and go find a Mormon to fellowship." -Mountainscott

I'll be home on Friday night. My email is jamsorensen@verizon.net. Please contact me so we can fellowship.

J_Sorensen, Read the verbiage in the paragraph regarding marriage again:
"At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage." This is pretty clear that it refers to the ordinance of marriage being perfomed in heaven. Not that marriages do not exist in the resurrection, only that the ordinance will not be done in the resurrection. Again you are interpreting something incorrectly based on a clearly inadequete reading. The verbiage is very clear as is the Gospel of Christ.

"The message of Christ was clear and concise. it was plain and simple. He defined Christianity and said, also very clearly that no one else gets to." -Mountainscott

"Except Joseph Smith". J_Sorensen.
Joseph Smith didn't try to decide at all who was a Christian, he used Christ's definition.

Not true. All of the mainline denominations were represented in Smith's location. According to Mormon theology, there was a "great apostasy." If you adhere to that, then there is no question that Smith was referring to all other Christian churches because the sign of an apostasy would be the teaching of non-biblical messages.

The Joseph Smith Story as it was told by him is very clear about who he was talking about. you need to read the whole thing and take it in it's context. Again, we have selective readings taken out of context.

When I talked about your creative license, I was referring to this:
"J_Sorensen:
"I was answered that I must join none of them (Christian churches), for they were all wrong…their creeds were an abomination in [God’s] sight; that those professors were all corrupt" (Joseph Smith—History 1:19).
Did you or did you not add those parentheses to emphasise your own interpretation of that passage??

"That's a pretty bold statement, but you make a great argument against the Protestant notion of "Sola Scriptura." If the individual is not qualified to study scripture and understand it, then by whose authority is Scripture interpreted?" J_Sorensen

Easy, the Holy Sirit helps with our interpretation. Here is one thing I will say is different about Mormons. They don't tell you that you aren't smart enough to read scripture and interpret it. They don't say, let us tell you what it means
They tell you, in the words of James
James 1:5
If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him.

J_Sorensen, While I love talking about this kind of thisng, it is very clear that you have developed your understanding of the Gospel through reading and study. The problem is that, in order to really know it, you must balance the study and reading with the metaphysical. Intellectualism for it's own sake sometimes works where science is concerned, but not where the Gospel is concerned. Faith is the belief in the unseen and unprovable. The problem happens because people always want to prove their point. It just doesn't work here. You can't prove you are right and I can't prove I am. The bottom line is that if you search the scripture for centuries, you will not find the truth unless you get down on your knees and pray for wisdom. That's why this whole conversation will serve none of us. If you lack wisdom, ask of God. Stop trying to find it by the same methods you would study biology, or anatomy.

Thanks very much Bashful. That makes me feel very good because I consider myself the unlikeliest of advocates of Mormonism and the least eloquent regarding the finer points. It's not like I am the poster boy for it. You are more likely to see me on the poster for how not to be a good Mormon
I do believe it to be true though, without a doubt.

Thanks for the invitation J_Sorensen. I may take you up on it. I do have plenty of respect for open, honest discussion, and for you and your faith.

"J_Sorensen, Read the verbiage in the paragraph regarding marriage again:
"At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage."

Mountainscott, the passage is obvious. The woman was married before the ressurection. That's what the disciples were asking about, and Christ was clear in his answer. He said "You will be like the angels." There are no married angels in Scripture.

"The Joseph Smith Story as it was told by him is very clear about who he was talking about. you need to read the whole thing and take it in it's context. Again, we have selective readings taken out of context." -Mountainscott

I gave it to you in context. Joseph Smith taught that there was a great apostasy, and the text I posted is an elaboration on a theme. Do you deny this? It is a core doctrine of the LDS church.

"Did you or did you not add those parentheses to emphasise your own interpretation of that passage??" -Mountainscott

Yes, I did add that. Would you like me to post the entire paragraph? The meaning does not change.

"Easy, the Holy Sirit helps with our interpretation. Here is one thing I will say is different about Mormons. They don't tell you that you aren't smart enough to read scripture and interpret it. They don't say, let us tell you what it means
They tell you, in the words of James
James 1:5
If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him." -Mountainscott

It says "anyone who lacks wisdom." Are you trying to tell me that anyone who disputes Mormon theology is lacking in wisdom?

"J_Sorensen, While I love talking about this kind of thisng, it is very clear that you have developed your understanding of the Gospel through reading and study."

You don't know me well enough to make that assumption.

"The problem is that, in order to really know it, you must balance the study and reading with the metaphysical."

The fact that I have studied does not mean that I haven't balanced the intellectual with the metaphysical.

"Intellectualism for it's own sake sometimes works where science is concerned, but not where the Gospel is concerned."

Neither do mere "feelings." The proof of this is in the multitude of Christian or quasi-Christian denominations, including your own, and it does not make for sound interpretation of the Gospel.

"Faith is the belief in the unseen and unprovable. The problem happens because people always want to prove their point. It just doesn't work here." -Mountainscott

I'm not asking you to prove that God exists. I already believe that, as you do. What I am debating are those things in which we can agree on some common ground, ie. the Bible.

"You can't prove you are right and I can't prove I am. The bottom line is that if you search the scripture for centuries, you will not find the truth unless you get down on your knees and pray for wisdom." -Mountainscott

We Catholics have daily mass and I never miss it. I'm on my knees praying six out of seven days a week.

"That's why this whole conversation will serve none of us. If you lack wisdom, ask of God. Stop trying to find it by the same methods you would study biology, or anatomy." -Mountainscott

I'll just take that as a "no" to my offer of fellowship, although I think you ought to change your mind, but that's up to you. The offer is always there.

As far as study goes, don't forget that the Scriptures were meant to be studied (2 Tim 3:16) and that all should be prepared to make a defense. (1 Pet 3:15)

It's a common Mormon tactic to appeal to feelings and try to make that the focus. I've know missionaries all my life. But based on Scripture, prayer, study, and common sense, I have to disagree with that wholeheartedly. Feelings are not always a reliable guide.